New This Week: Think Twice About the Elements of Power

Discussing War, Tech, & Dirty Supply Chains with Nicolas Niarchos

Feb 22, 2026

Our Guest: Nicolas Niarchos, Journalist and Author of “The Elements of Power: A Story of War, Technology, and the Dirtiest Supply Chain on Earth”

John Donvan, Moderator-in-Chief of Open to Debate, moderates this episode.

Every so often, we depart from our standard debate format to interview an author about a thought-provoking new work that challenges us to Think Twice about geopolitical or policy assumptions.

In this week’s episode, we do this in an interview with journalist Nicholas Stavros Niarchos, who is the author of “Elements of Power,” a deep investigation into the origin and process of supply chain logistics for metals that power modern technology, highlighting hidden human, political, and environmental costs behind a competition that is reshaping the world order.

In one specific exchange, John and Nicolas comment on a core technology that we use every day:

“John Donvan: What I wanna propose as a premise for this program, and I wanna see if you agree, is that the one thing that people will think twice about in their lives after hearing this conversation is that little object that so many of us carry everywhere with us and touch hundreds of times a day and stare at for minutes or even hours. And that thing is the not-so-humble mobile phone. I'm arguing that this conversation is gonna make people think twice about that phone after they hear what you have to tell them. Do you think that's a fair thesis?
Nicolas Niarchos: Yes. I mean, if they haven't read into the subject before. Yes.
John Donvan: So, let's get into the subject and just in the broadest sense, tell us the thesis of your book.
Nicolas Niarchos: The thesis of the book is that the supply chain for batteries is incredibly dirty, filled with human rights abuses, filled with corruption, and filled with environmental degradation [and] pollution. We often think of these things as futuristic [and] green, but they actually rely on some very, very unpleasant realities...”

Other Offerings From Our “Think Twice” Series

As with this week's offering, there's a library of Think Twice interviews. Particularly newsy this week: an interview with Justice Stephen. G. Breyer as we hear news from the Supreme Court about tariffs, an interview with Vicky Ward about how to “rethink” high-profile crime investigations as the search for Today Show host Savannah Guthrie's mother continues, and with Derek Thompson as Democrats continue to debate an “abundance” agenda.

Like for batteries, the materials to make chips used in computers and AI data centers today rely on rare earth materials such as cobalt, lithium, and graphite, often found in Africa and countries like the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Recently, we’ve debated whether it’s too late for Europe to compete in the Chips War and whether the U.S. can outpace China in AI through chip controls. Listen to these debates now.

Allison Schrager and Jeff Ferry Debating "Are Tariffs Good for the Economy?"

On Friday, the Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that President Trump had exceeded his authority when he imposed tariffs on nearly every U.S. trading partner using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA). The ruling invalidated many, but not all, of Trump’s tariffs, leaving in place ones he imposed on steel and aluminum using different laws. Since then, the President has responded by imposing an immediate global 15% tariff and is exploring alternatives.

When the Trump administration reached its first 100 days, Open to Debate, in partnership with Bloomberg, held a debate on Trump’s economic agenda. Watch the debate now and view our clip on Instagram, where Allison Schrager and Jeff Ferry argue about whether tariffs help economic growth.

Former debater Mike Pesca, award-winning journalist and host of “The Gist,” is now also the host of the Ambie Award-nominated podcast “How To!”

Each week, Mike tackles a listener’s question on topics ranging from travel and finance to health and relationships and beyond – with the help of world-class experts who actually know what they're talking about. Think of it as eavesdropping on someone else's therapy session, without the co-pay or awkward silence.

How To! With Mike Pesca’s first episode, How To Be a DJ Not a Playlist with Tom Nash, is out now, and new episodes are released every Tuesday. You can listen to the trailer here and find the show here.